Spiritual Death

(taken from the old Search The Scriptures forum)

 

Original thread was posted by icebear

POSTED BY:icebear

 

I personally don't believe that Jesus had to spend time in hell to complete out salvation etc. But i need to clarify to myself why i hold this belief b4 i can possibly explain it effectively to others.
I'm hoping i can get some help with this.  The persons 'we' are debating with are mixed up with the 'ministries' of Copeland, VanImpe,Duplantis and Meyer et al. So it is basically more than my new Chrisitan feet can stand up to.
Are there any suggestible resources out there, books, Biblical verses, sermons etc that someone could recommend?
Thanks for anything.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Virginia Teems

 

The debate can easily be set to rest if the people you are debating are positive to the truth of Scripture.  Otherwise, they will not receive it and are possible not even saved.

The Great Gulf, located in the underworld,  has four compartments:  "Paradise", the abode of the souls of the "righteos Dead" until Christ's resurrection.   It is now empty because he took those souls with him when he ascended into heaven. Eph. 4:8-10.  Now "Paradise" is located in heaven since Christ's resurrection. Phil. 1:23.

"Hell" or Hades, is the other compartment and is the abode of the souls of the wicked dead.  They will be resurrected at the end of the Millennium at the Great White Throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15) where they will discover that their human good works were not good enough for them to get into heaven because they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ as their salvation.

The "Lake of FIre" is another compartment of the underworld where, after the wicked dead are judged, will spend eternity.   It is also known as Gehenna or the final hell (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15.

The other compartment in the underworld is "Tartarus" which in the Greek means total darkness.   It is the prison of the "fallen angels" of in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 6.

Christ went to the underworld, not to complete our salvation, but to receive unto himself the righteous dead and to preach to those wicked dead in prison to declare his victory over death, physical as well as spiritual.   He died a physical and a spiritual death on the cross but was victorious at His resurrection, over both.
There is no way Christ could have gone into the underworld as anything else but victorious.  Our salvation was complete on the cross and Scripture bears this out.    There is an excellent book entitled "Dispensational Truth" by Clarence Larkin.   It is a rare one, though, and hard to find.   One place that has it is the *** Christian Book Store in Plano, Texas (in the Dallas phone book).   You need this book to study all of the dispensations, the doctrines of salvation, demonology, angelology, prophecy, etc.

Hope this has helped you some.

A sister in Christ

Virginia Teems

dmteems@juno.com

Hell is the other compartment, the abode of the souls of the wicked dead

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Caveman

 

Where in scripture does it speak of four compartments located in an underworld?  How can anyone teach such a laid out and intricate pattern of hell having four compartments, when the Bible speaks nothing of this insight that you are teaching?

You stated "Christ died a spiritual death". Tell me, where in scripture does it say that anyone, never mind Christ, has ever died spiritually?  You stated that our salvation was completed on the cross, but your version of the cross has Christ dying spiritual for our salvation when scripture speaks nothing of spiritual death at all.  I have no idea where you are getting this stuff from, but it sure isnít the Bible.  Maybe you should straighten out your doctrine of salvation before you start trying to teach others the insights of your quad based compartmental Hell.

Sorry that I seem hard here sister but I have noticed that you have posted your teaching in 6 places on this forum, in a matter of hours.  Your teaching on dispensationalism and prophecy is destructive and grossly unbiblical.

As for an explanation of these verses:

(1 Pet 3:19-20 KJV)  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; {20} Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

(1 Pet 4:6 KJV)  For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

It is not saying here that there was a sermon in Hell after the crucifixion.  No specific time is given to this event at all, which really is not an event.  All it is saying is that the gospel (Christís death, burial, and resurrection) was preached to all, and throughout all time through the prophets.  It is for this reason that all men are without excuse when they stand before God to be judged.  When it refers to the dead, it is not inferring that they where preached to while dead, but that they, being dead, when they were alive, had the gospel preached to them. They are being referred to as being dead now, but were preached to while alive.  Christ preached this same gospel to those alive in the days of Noah, by the spirit that was in the prophets.

(1 Pet 1:9-11 KJV)  Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. {10} Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: {11} Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The "sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow" is the gospel (the death, burial and resurrection).

Noahís "preparing of the ark" condemned the world around him. Those living, in the days of Noah, were preached the gospel in the preparing of the ark. It is for this reason that they will be without excuse and "judged according to men in the flesh" in the day that God judges the souls of men.

(1 Pet 3:19-20 KJV)  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; {20} Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

(Heb 11:7 KJV)  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Noah himself, was a preacher to the world around him and his preaching left those around him without an excuse.

(2 Pet 2:5 KJV)  And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Caveman

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Virginia Teems

 

For Caveman:

The four compartments located in the underworld are as follows in SCRIPTURE, not in my imagination:

In 2 Peter 2:4, we are given the place that is specifically reserved for the "fallen angels" also spoken of in Jude 6, as "the angels which kept not their first estate".  The "chains of darkness" mentioned in both passages is one of the compartments of the underworld, known as Tartarus, which in the Greek translates out as total darkness.   So "Tartarus" is the prison of the fallen angels. The "fallen angels" are described as the "sons of God"  in Genesis 6, who intermarried with human women. So "Tartarus" is one compartment of the underworld.

In Luke 16:19-31 is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.   In this parable, the beggar dies and is carried to "Abraham's Bosom", which is another name for "Paradise". (Paradise is another compartment of the underworld). The rich man also died and was buried.  He was in "Hell" (one more compartment of the underworld).

Then in Rev. 19:20, 20:10, 14, 15 there is a fourth compartment of the underworld, known as "The Lake of Fire".  In Matt. 25:41 it is referred to as the Final Hell, or Gehenna, as translated from the original language.

There is yet a fifth compartment of the underworld known in Scripture as the Abyss or the "Bottomless Pit", in Revelation 9:1; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1.

In reference to Christ's Spiritual death on the cross, he died both spiritually and physically.  When he said, "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?" He was addressing God the Father and God the Holy Spirit who both turned their backs on Him because He was made sin for us and they could not look upon sin.   If he hadn't died both spiritually and physically, we could not have spiritual life or physical life.   We are all born physically alive but spiritually dead.  When we are saved we are born spiritually alive in Christ.  We now possess a living human spirit upon our conversion, along with about 40 other things that happen to us at the point of salvation (all of them in Scripture, I might add, and I can give you those Scriptures).   In John 11:25 Jesus says, "I am the resurrection, and the life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."   Again, a person is spiritually dead before he "believeth", but he is spiritually alive because he has believeth!  So, the person was born physically alive, spiritually dead, but when he became a believer, he was now born spiritually alive.  In Romans 3:23 we are told that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.  We are all born sinners and cannot save ourselves.   Rom. 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death (sin causes physical and spiritual death).   Spiritual death is the condition of everybody who hasn't received Christ as their Savior.  Everythiing I have said in my comments is Scripture!   Haven't you been reading the Scriptures I have been giving to you?  I didn't write the Book, but I have been quoting it.There are so many Scriptures that tell us that if we are not saved we are going to the Lake of Fire, that means we will be spiritually dead!  How can you make such a statement as "where in scripture does it say that anyone, never mind Christ, has ever died spiritually?"  What do you think being born-again means!   It means being, No. 1 - born physically and
No. 2 - born spiritually when you believe.

That's two births, right?   BORN - AGAIN!!!
REBORN!!!   Two births!  A physical birth and a spiritual birth.

Now you go and read all of those verses I have given in my postings and tell God that He is wrong, that He is a liar, that His Book isn't correct and that He makes mistakes!    

And then tell Him that you are R-I-G-H-T and everybody else is wrong.  A person would think that YOU wrote the Bible.

You are like  "natural" man in I Cor. 2:14.  You are not born-again because you are not capable of understand things that are spiritually discerned.

Get saved and then you can make it.  Here's how:\

THE BAD NEWS:

Romans 3:23 - all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.   (We are all sinners at birth).

THE GOOD NEWS:
Romans 6:23 - The wages of sin is death (physical and spiritual death), but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ.

GOD'S PLAN OF SALVATION FOR US:

Rom. 5:8 - But God commended his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Acts 16:31 - believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.j

Eph. 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:  it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall have eternal life.

There are over 150 NT verses that explain the way of salvation.   READ THE SCRIPTURES and ask God for the wisdom to understand them.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Caveman

 

Virginia,

Out of all that you have said, you still have not given me one reference to any verse in scripture that says one can be spiritually dead.  The reason you have not is because there is not one verse in the Bible that mentions this or teaches this.  I have heard your teaching before and there was a time where I believed it.  That was until God woke me up to the fact that this whole thing about Jesus having to die spiritually is taught nowhere in scripture.  It all sounds great but it is make believe, it is a fairy tale.  If this were something that was needed to be saved, Paul would have taught this spiritual death of Jesus that took place on the cross as fact.  The fact is Paul never mentioned it, nor did any of the writers of the New Testament. In all that was taught in scripture there was nothing called a spiritual death?  You have been reading junk.  You have taken the one verse that says ďMy god my God why has though forsaken me" and read into it a whole new gospel of spiritual death that was necessary for our salvation that is nowhere taught in the Bible.  Can't you see this?  Below is a list of things that you have said that are nowhere taught in scripture.

That there are four or five compartments of Hell.

You mention the lake of fire, the bottomless pit, Abrahamís bosom, but where does it teach of these as being compartments.  You made it up.  It is true that these places exist but your teaching goes way beyond what scripture mentions of this and this is dangerous.  Isnít there enough scripture to work with?  Why do you have to go beyond what it says? Scripture says

(Isa 8:20 KJV)  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

(1 Pet 4:11 KJV)  If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

You have stated

In reference to Christ's Spiritual death on the cross, he died both spiritually and physically

I NEED A VERSE

You say that God turned his back on Jesus.  Where does it say this?

I NEED A VERSE

You said, "If he hadn't died both spiritually and physically, we could not have spiritual life or physical life" Where is scripture does it say that?

I NEED A VERSE

You quoted "I am the resurrection, and the life; he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."

Then you state:

Again, a person is spiritually dead before he "believeth", but he is spiritually alive because he has believeth!  

Where in this verse does it say that he was spiritually dead or spiritually alive?  Scripture speaks of us being dead in our sins, but nothing of this spiritual death that you speak of.  I will even take one verse that states that we are made spiritually alive as though we were spiritually dead.  Do not think that I am picking on you.  I hear this taught by many Christians and it goes on being taught without ever being questioned.  I am trying to get you to see that you believe something as gospel that is not taught in the Bible.  You put up a good fight, but can you not see that there is not one reference to spiritual death in scripture?

Where does it say, "Spiritual death is the condition of everybody who hasn't received Christ as their Savior"

Virginia, I NEED A VERSE

Caveman

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Dusty

 

Caveman is spot-on to say that Christ never died spiritually.  How on earth can God die?!  Virginia's idea leads to the suggestion that Christ is not co-equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Another problem is the implication that Jesus was "born again" just like a Christian is - and thus that we are "little Messiahs, little gods".  This is a dreadful heresy.  We are merely "unprofitable servants", "wicked", "evil", "clay", only saved by God's immense grace.

However, Virginia is surely RIGHT to believe that unsaved people are spiritually dead.  God told Adam that he would die the DAY he ate of the forbidden tree.  Clearly neither his body nor soul died.  The only option is that his spirit died.  This IS confirmed in various places in Scripture.  (Details on request!)  Neither our body nor soul is reborn when we come to Christ, but our spirit.  It is seated in heavenly places in Christ.  It is baptised (submerged) into the Holy Spirit.  A non-believer cannot grasp the things of God because he is spiritually dead to God.

When Adam sinned, we were all in him and we all died - spiritually.  Or is there another way we could all have died?  :o)

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Caveman

 

Dusty you stated:

God told Adam that he would die the DAY he ate of the forbidden tree.  Clearly neither his body nor soul died.  The only option is that his spirit died.  This IS confirmed in various places in Scripture.

 

It is also clear that nowhere in scriptures does it say that Adams spirit died either.What it does speak of is a separation from God.He was banished from the garden.Christ is life.In him is life and there is life in no other.This serperation from God (or Christ) brought about a separation from life itself.This we can support biblically.We have been reconciled to life itself in Christ.We were dead in our sins and in Christ we are made alive.All I am saying is that the writers of the Bible never used the doctrine of spiritual death to preach the gospel.Why should we.Especially when we see where the false teachers take this stuff.The term spiritual death is not taught or stated in scripture

 

You go on to say:

Neither our body nor soul is reborn when we come to Christ, but our spirit.

 

Dusty I love you brother but I need a verse.

 

You state our spirit is seated in heavenly places in Christ.

 

What bible are you reading?Mine says

 

(Eph 2:6 KJV)And hath raised us up together, and made us (not our spirit) sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

You continue:

It is baptized (submerged) into the Holy Spirit.  A non-believer cannot grasp the things of God because he is spiritually dead to God.

 

So you are saying our spirit is baptized?I need a verse.And again where does it say in the bible that the non-believer is spiritually dead?

 

You finish by stating:

When Adam sinned, we were all in him and we all died - spiritually.  Or is there another way we could all have died?  :o)

 

Yes.We died (not spiritually) but as a result of being separated from Christ, who is our life.But by the grace of God we have been made alive through the reconciliation that was mad through His shed blood.

 

Caveman

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:K.C. Hartman

 

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins
Eph 2:1 (NASB)
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:1 (KJV)
You used to be dead because of your offenses and sins,
Eph 2:1 (ISV)
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:1 (NKJV)

  I only show several versions in effort to make it clear that -Yes- we are spiritually dead because of our sins without Christ. Paul is being abundantly clear that as sinners we are dead in spirit. You just can't take this verse and say he was trying to suggest that we were dead bodily can you? Then we surely couldn't respond to the Gospel could we? :)
  Dusty is right on with his/her explaination above. As to the idea of compartments I myself can find no Scriptual basis for it.Here in the Scriptures it even explicitly refers to different regions NOT compartments.


In His Service,
K.C. Hartman

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Caveman

 

K.C.

You quoted 4 verses about being dead IN OUR SINS.This does not say dead in your spirit.  Not one of these verses say there is such a thing as spiritual death.  I believe my point was that the Bible makes no reference to spiritual death.  Keep trying, but in the meantime I stand on what God's Word says, and also what it doesn't say about spiritual death.  Nowhere in scripture does it mention or teach spiritual death.  You have interpreted this teaching from the verses you quoted, even though there is no mention of spiritual death whatsoever in any of the verses you quoted.  Again, if the label "Spiritual Death" and the teaching of it were necessary, to preach the gospel, I should be able to at least find one verse that stated or taught this stuff in scripture.

Caveman

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:K.C. Hartman

 

Thank you for your reply Caveman. Since this is not an essential to our belief in Christ as our Lord and Savior I will only give you some nuggets to think and pray about. God is good and His Spirit will reveal what He wants you to know in His timing.
  If you study Romans very carefully you will learn of the two men, Adam and Christ. Adam broke the only Law given him (don't eat of the one tree) and so was disfellowshiped by God. That is not to say God didn't love or care about him. It does mean something happened in the garden and God could not let Adam and Eve remain. Something happened when the fruit was consumed. Why was the serpent so anxious to convince Eve to eat of it? Why did Adam and Eve thereafter hide from God?
  You'll see in Romans how that without the Law there is no definition for sin yet men still DIED physically after the Garden Incident. Not only that but that as we moved further from creation through time our lifespans dramatically were shortened. Since Adam only knew God before the fruit consumption and fellowshipped with God then what caused the relationship to change? Was it not an act of Adam? Now we must realize that Adam was the VERY BEST the human race has ever had to offer and yet he fell. You or I certainly could do no better. So sin existed but was not defined till Moses gave out God's Law so that we could in some way "meet" with Him. This meeting Him involved a few select priests trained in meeting God's expectations for the temporary covering of our sins. Yet with all this we could not fellowship with God like Adam did, why not? You probably know this story so I'll fast forward
  Adam represents the flesh and Jesus Christ represents the Spiritual man. I pray you don't find this disagreeable. Now as Scripture tells us, we are made alive in Christ. This is very clear as follows;

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1 Cor 15:21-23 (KJV)

So we see in the great discourse between Jesus and Nicodemus the following:

John 3:3-10 (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(this insinuates that we once had some kind of life,-born again-, but isn't Nicodemus now as a man of God alive and talking with Jesus here? Isn't he already physically born and yet a Servant of God? If Nicodemus has a spirit in him is it a dead spirit or what?)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

(He is asking quite clearly here, How can I be reborn physically?)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

( Now here Jesus further defines (in order) that we must first be Physically born and then we need to be Spiritually born the order for these events is important)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(Here He clarifies the last verse. Note that he says flesh is flesh but Spirit with a capital "S" borns the spirit small "s")(yes I know punctuation is for our edification but I believe you'll agree there is a Holy Spirit and other spirits)

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

( He warns Nicodemus not to be confused by these sayings then clarifies it with the next verse)

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

(See how careful Jesus is to show that the Spirit is something we can't get a physical grasp on? He demonstrates it is real just not visible to us, only felt within. We don't direct this Spirit but it does direct us)

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

  Remember Nicodemus was of High standing of the Pharisees, a ruler of the Jews. This means he was well educated in God's Word and taught it.Later as you may remember he defends Jesus and then much later he is the one who brought the aloes and herbs for Jesus' burial. This to me means he himself searched the Scriptures and understood that Jesus was in fact telling the Truth and was Born-Again

  Remember Peter in telling us to defend what is right gave an illustration of how to live a godly life and reminded us why He died;

18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1 Peter 3:18 (NASB)

  Now we know that Christ is a Spiritual being with a Physical body (He dwells in heaven now) and you and I already agreed He did not nor could not die Spiritually. Yet we also die to sin or the flesh (Adam as our fleshly man that is illustrated in Romans). And yet we are born into Christ as children of God. We now are dead to sin. That doesn't mean our flesh doesn't sin. It means Our new spiritual being cannot sin because we are born of God.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9 (KJV)

23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
1 Peter 1:23 (NASB)

  So You see it is really impossible for me to believe I was spiritually alive before I was reborn as a child of God. I did things that I truly know a spiritual child of God could not do as the Bible says we cannot.
Remember 1 Corinthians 12:3  

  So you see Dear Saints, God is free to fellowship with us once again because He has provided the way to rebirth and also everlasting life. Praise God!

K.C. Hartman

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

REPLY POSTED BY:Caveman

 

KC

 

At least we have one thing we agree on and that is that Jesus did not die spiritually.Why do we believe that he did not die spiritually, it is because the bible says nothing of the sort.Now if we take this reasoning and apply it to the question of does man die spiritually, we should also realize that he does not because of the same reason.It is not taught anywhere in scripture.

 

Let us first deal with the scriptures you quote:

 

(1 Cor 15:21-22 KJV)For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. {22} For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

It does not say here that the spirit was dead or that it is the spirit that is made alive.What the bible does say is that we are dead in our sins and that in Christ we are made alive.That is my point.The doctrine of a spiritual death is not used by Paul, or anyone else for that matter, to teach or preach the gospel.

 

Next this verse

(1 Pet 3:18 KJV)For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

This is speaking of Christ and His death in the flesh and His being resurrected to life by the Spirit.The verse below helps to understand this a little bit better.

 

(Rom 8:10-11 KJV)And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; (notice how it does not say the spirit is dead, it canít be the spirit is life) but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. {11} But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

This is referring to Christ bringing our dead bodies back to life through His spirit.As you can see the gospel is being preached in these verses without any mention of a spiritual death that needs to be made alive.I would go as far as to say that spiritual death is an alternative salvation message.Especially if you then take this spiritual death doctrine to teach, (as Virginia did) that it took Jesus dying spiritual for mankind to be saved.The bible says it was through Christís shed blood, not a spiritual death that was required to redeem us back to God.Do you see why this is so important to get right?I think when this error is introduced it has the potential to be used in a way that borderlines heresy.

 

I see where you are going with what you have written about the born again passages in John 3.My problem is this.Jesus spoke of being born again.He spoke of the first birth as being of the flesh and the second as being of the spirit.And you are correct the second birth, with the Spirit, is capitalized meaning the authors of the KJV did not think the word was referring to our spirit as being birthed in us but Godís.

 

I cannot find anywhere in scriptures where our spirit was ever referred to as being dead.I cannot find anywhere in scriptures where our spirit was brought back to life from a state of being dead.This passage in John 3 is not validating the teaching of a spiritual death doctrine.All it is saying is that you need to be born again.It is saying that you are born once in the flesh and through faith again to God in His Spirit.We are given a new life with His Spirit in us through Christ.Nowhere does it say that our spirit was brought to life because it was dead.

 

From what I am getting from the scriptures the spirit cannot die because it is life itself.The body without the spirit is dead because when life leaves, (or the spirit) then there is death.The word life and spirit are synonymous.

 

(John 6:63 KJV)  It is the spirit that quickeneth (maketh alive); the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

(Rom 8:2 KJV)  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

(Rom 8:10 KJV)  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

(2 Cor 3:6 KJV)Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

(Rev 11:11 KJV)  And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

 

Here is something interesting from Ecclesiastics, the spirit, after death, returns to God who gave it, once it leaves the body.

 

(Eccl 12:7 KJV)Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

Caveman