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  • Message: Endorsing the pre wrath view of the rapture gives you ALOT less credibility because if Rosenthal is right-everybody else in the history of the church has been WRONG--highly unlikely. Wrath is Wrath-we have not been appointed to it-context is the Day of the Lord. What blessed hope do you have other than to be killed so that you can then join the Lord??

    Beloved,

    There is not one verse in the Bible that says that the resurrection (or what most call the rapture) takes place prior to the tribulation.  This has nothing to do with Rosenthal; it has to do with scripture.

    (2 Th 2:1-4 KJV)  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (resurrection or what most call the rapture), {2} That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. {3} Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

    Please read

    http://www.searchthescriptures.com/newsletters/70threvb.htm

    http://www.searchthescriptures.com/newsletters/timeline.htm

    If you read these studies you will understand why we at Search the Scriptures have come to the conclusion that scripture lays out that the resurrection takes place just after cosmic disturbance in the skies and ends the tribulation.  The tribulation begins in the midst of the 70th week of Daniel and last a very short period of time (if the days were not shortened no flesh would live).  The tribulation is ended with cosmic disturbance and the resurrection and it is on that day that the Day of the Lord Wrath commences.  Cosmic disturbance is one of the key factors in putting this all together (that and abandoning any pre-conceived beliefs one might have concerning this issue).

    These verses explain that cosmic disturbance happens immediately after the tribulation and prior to the day of the Lord wrath, which in the same day the deliverance of the saints takes place.

    (Joel 2:31 KJV)  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

    (Mat 24:29-31 KJV)  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    (Luke 17:24-30 KJV)  For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. {25} But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. {26} And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. {27} They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. {28} Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; {29} But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. {30} Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

    God has not called us unto wrath

    (1 Th 1:10 KJV)  And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

    (1 Th 5:9 KJV)  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

    But he has called us to tribulation

    (John 16:33 KJV)  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    (Acts 14:22 KJV)  Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

    (1 Th 3:4 KJV)  For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

    (Rev 2:8-10 KJV)  And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; {9} I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. {10} Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    (Rev 2:18-22 KJV)  And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; {19} I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. {20} Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. {21} And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. {22} Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

    The verse above is speaking to the church beloved.

    It is easy to see that the church is rescued out of the tribulation

    (Rev 7:9-14 KJV)  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; {10} And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. {11} And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, {12} Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. {13} And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    Unfortunately we have been brainwashed into believing that the tribulation is a period of seven years, when actually nowhere in scripture does it say that the 70th week of Daniel (a seven year period) is the tribulation.  Jesus spoke of the tribulation as starting at the time of the placing of the abomination of desolation.

    (Mat 24:15-21 KJV)  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) {16} Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {17} Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: {18} Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. {19} And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! {20} But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: {21} For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    We know that the placing of the abomination of desolation happens in the midst of the seven year period

    (Dan 9:27 KJV)  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    This is what commences the tribulation.  And if we would have continued reading Matthew 24, where Jesus explains all this, we would have seen that the (shortening of the days) of the tribulation is preformed with the gathering of the elect from both heaven and Earth.  (the dead in Christ and those that are alive at His coming)

    (Mat 24:21-31 KJV)  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. {22} And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. {23} Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. {24} For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. {25} Behold, I have told you before. {26} Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. {27} For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. {28} For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. {29} Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    (Mark 13:24-27 KJV)  But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, {25} And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. {26} And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. {27} And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    There are two resurrections.  One consisting of the just and the other consisting of the unjust

    (Acts 24:15 KJV)  And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

    (John 5:29 KJV)  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    The first one is the resurrection of the just and scripture calls it (the first resurrection)

    (Rev 20:4-6 KJV)  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (these are the saints): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus (and these saints are getting recognized for what they did in the tribulation see: Heb 11:35), and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    The first resurrection consists of saints, both resurrected and sitting on thrones, and those that endured the tribulation.  This is why I do not use the word (rapture).  It causes confusion, because it leads people to believe that there is a resurrection prior to the first resurrection.  Mary new that here hope was not in what we call a rapture, but in the resurrection of the just.

    (John 11:21-24 KJV)  Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. {22} But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee. {23} Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. {24} Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    The reason she states here in the last day is because at Christ's coming if you are not ready there is no hope for you.  It is truly the last day for anyone that seeks deliverance and forgiveness.

    (Mat 25:10-13 KJV)  And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. {11} Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. {12} But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. {13} Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    (Luke 13:24-25 KJV)  Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. {25} When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    The last day is when the resurrection takes place. But this is not the last day of all time; this is the last day for deliverance.

    (John 6:39-40 KJV) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. {40} And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    (John 6:44 KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    (John 6:54 KJV) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Remember just as in the days of Noe.

    Noe entered into the ark, (and the door was shut) and the flood came.

    (Gen 7:16 KJV)  And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

    Jesus taught the same thing concerning the resurrection of the just.

    (Luke 14:12-14 KJV)  Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompense be made thee. {13} But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: {14} And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

    (Luke 20:35-36 KJV)  But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: {36} Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

    Not the children of the rapture but the children of the resurrection. Is this not speaking of the church (children of the resurrection)?  Or are we going to play the "that scripture does not apply because it is Israel" game.  We have exempted most of scripture dealing with this critical issue because we have embraced the preconceived beliefs of pre-trib and have become blind to what scripture plainly says throughout the Bible concerning this issue.


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